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#39 "Attack Geometry"

5th Apr 2013, 12:30 AM
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#39 "Attack Geometry"
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Centcomm 5th Apr 2013, 12:41 AM edit delete reply
oh man, he is so outclassed... >_<
Songgu Kwon 5th Apr 2013, 1:01 AM edit delete reply
Songgu Kwon
Yup. Hrodger is a very experienced fighter with a keen sense of timing and distance. And he doesn't waste any energy. Durgo is indeed in over his head. It's kind of like a 1st level fighter going up against a 5th.
Dean Clark 5th Apr 2013, 12:42 AM edit delete reply
Dean Clark
Durgo's the underdog here, and he's trying harder, so we want him to win, even though we know he will later turn out to be a villain. And if this is a fight to the death, we know he does win. So my money is on Durgo.
Songgu Kwon 5th Apr 2013, 1:24 AM edit delete reply
Songgu Kwon
People root for the underdog because in life, the underdog so rarely wins. In fictional scenarios, I think it's actually more common for the underdog to win. So much so that we almost expect it when we see an obviously mismatched contest. I will call it the "David and Goliath Syndrome".
gibberish 5th Apr 2013, 12:57 AM edit delete reply
"woosh"is the worst sound you'll hear as a morningstar flies at your nutsack.
Songgu Kwon 5th Apr 2013, 1:26 AM edit delete reply
Songgu Kwon
Shields up! Brace for impact! Whew, flail just missed us on the starboard side.
Draginbeard 5th Apr 2013, 2:17 AM edit delete reply
As they say... its all fun until somebody loses an eye.

Point in fact.
Dean Clark 5th Apr 2013, 3:34 AM edit delete reply
Dean Clark
A win by Durgo could be chalked up to him entering a rage after losing his eye, or some "luck." Rage may help him connect, and when he does, it is (near) lethal, on account of his strength -- as possibly augmented by rage -- or luck, namely, a critical hit, or maximum damage. But the critical hit or maximized damage could be more the result of training, natural ability or magic than just luck. The spectator's comment about knocking Hrodger down may indicate Durgo is trained in a melee special attack -- in D&D terms, perhaps the feats Stunning Blow, Trip, Hamstring, or Sap.
Mayyday 5th Apr 2013, 10:03 AM edit delete reply
I think rage would actually work against him. Keeping your cool is vital in combat. Angry people make stupid mistakes.
dougwarner59 5th Apr 2013, 11:25 AM edit delete reply
cool looking page.
Dean Clark 5th Apr 2013, 3:01 PM edit delete reply
Dean Clark
Common sense doesn't always pertain in the D&D universe. In D&D, Rage makes it so you can hit more often, and do and take more damage. It also makes it easier to others to hit you. A Barbarian gets that as a feat, but Durgo may just be a hot-headed Fighter. The spectator's comment about knocking Hrodger over inclines me to suspect Durgo trained for the Improved Trip feat specifically, and the prerequisite, Combat Expertise, though he would need above average intelligence for the latter. That would be possible for even a 1st level fighter. He could even train for the enhancement Fighter Strategy (Trip) I at first level, assuming this is a Fighter with a plan. If you trip someone, they can't fight back for up to a minute, during which time they are more vulnerable to attack. That could be just the advantage Durgo needs against a higher-level character. So maybe Durgo is a resourceful Fighter, or just a lucky Barbarian.
Songgu Kwon 5th Apr 2013, 6:23 PM edit delete reply
Songgu Kwon
Imagine if in real life, tripping over something caused you to become COMPLETELY incapable of taking ANY action for one full minute. That would be reaaaally annoying if you tripped while hurrying because you were late for work or something in the first place.
hibou 6th Apr 2013, 11:16 AM edit delete reply
of course, you're assuming that the world of Elf adheres to the rules of whatever edition of D&D you're referencing. my impression is that it's not that cut and dry. let's give credit to Herr Kwon for not just slavishly following some rule book set forth by WOC.
gibberish 5th Apr 2013, 9:44 PM edit delete reply
Today I tripped over a step and stubbed my toe. I was down for about five minutes. The whole "rounds" and "turns" thing was never done right in D&D. The average person swings a weapon once a minute? I know that when I'm listening to some Maiden, I can really go ape-shit, banana-crazy with a longsword.
Dean Clark 6th Apr 2013, 3:24 AM edit delete reply
Dean Clark
Hrodger would have to be drunk, or just naturally light-headed to stay down for a full minute after being tripped. In DDO: "Prone creatures are given a Balance skill check every 2 seconds to stand up early." With just the Trip feat, the maximum time is only 30 sec. It's extended to 60 sec. with Improved Trip. Apparently, with Improved Trip, you knock their breath out of them. With Trip, you just scuff them up some. Both feats appear to be forceful enough to temporarily disorient whoever is tripped.

I would recommend Hamstring, which slows down your opponent. Unlike Trip, Hamstring has no saving throw. You can avoid being tripped in the first place with a DEX/STR-based save. If you also train in the Haste Boost enhancement, your relative speed will make you look like the Flash to a hamstrung opponent. It's like getting extra attacks.

Combat in PnP D&D is in slow motion. It's like an exploded view. It may take a minute to do all the calculations and dice rolls for taking a swing at someone, but in game time, it's only a fraction of that time. In DDO, the online version of the game, they automate all the dice rolls and calculations, so the combat occurs in real time.

After high school, I swore off playing Avalon Hill strategy games, since they were so time-consuming. After I discovered software strategy games, I wound up wasting just as much time on them as before, but was much more productive.
Dean Clark 6th Apr 2013, 11:54 PM edit delete reply
Dean Clark
Regarding Elf and D&D, the connection has been explicit, but unofficial. The Web series The Guild is widely believed to be based on World of Warcraft, but the connection is neither official, nor explicitly stated by series creator Felicia Day. She already backed out of a deal with Microsoft, because she did not want to give up ownership rights. She, likewise, may not want to be yoked to WoW. But now that she no longer has MS funding, it looks unlikely there will be another season. And it is unclear the show could get sponsorship from Blizzard even if Day wanted it.

Elf so far has been far superior to any of the official D&D multimedia productions I have seen. The quirkiness that makes Elf so fascinating wouldn't likely fit in with the current corporate five-year plan. Also, there are numerous problems with the rules of 1st edition D&D there would be no point in rehashing. Not that subsequent editions have always been an improvement. Fans generally regard 4th edition D&D as the Vista of the franchise. Even DDO has stuck with 3.5 rules, pending the release of a later, presumably improved edition.
Songgu Kwon 7th Apr 2013, 2:39 AM edit delete reply
Songgu Kwon
I think there are many inherent problems, creatively speaking, with narrative projects that are "officially" tied to something like D&D or any other game or amusement park rides or whatever. I remember the pain of sitting through a scene in an "official" D&D movie where a character explains the difference between the power source behind spells cast by wizards and clerics. Ugh.

Elf provides a fun platform for me to play around with the classic sword & sorcery fantasy genre. It sometimes makes references to D&D because D&D has greatly influenced the fantasy genre and my appreciation of it. I obviously have a great fondness for the ol' dice and pencil RPGs.

However, Elf is not really about any particular RPG even to the degree that Felicia Day's "The Guild" is about WoW. In other words, Elf is not a "D&D comic". It's a sort of experimental fantasy comic that happens to sometimes make references to fun stuff like D&D, video games, films, mythology, history, sword fighting techniques, etc. :)
Dean Clark 7th Apr 2013, 6:23 AM edit delete reply
Dean Clark
Day even seems to go out of her way to include minor differences, like character class names, between The Game -- in The Guild -- and WoW. Viewers don't always get the hint, though, and sometimes complain in comments about how an episode doesn't conform to WoW. As is, Day is free to portray the creator of The Game as a difficult boss, and gamers as the maladjusted, sadly marginal people they often are. Also, I suspect she'd rather not worry about being accurate about WoW all the time.
Songgu Kwon 9th Apr 2013, 11:11 AM edit delete reply
Songgu Kwon
I'm sure that using terminologies that were too WoW specific could've possibly caused legal problems. I think Day & team were smart to go with a unspecified alternate game phenomenon for their show.
Dean Clark 7th Apr 2013, 2:49 PM edit delete reply
Dean Clark
The obvious differences between The Guild and Elf are the media, and the degree to which the action occurs in-game. In the former case, little action occurs in-game, and in the latter, it's all "in-game," though there have been some glimpses through the fourth wall. But the games providing the primary inspiration also stand at opposite ends of RPG history. 1st edition D&D represents the beginning of the form, and WoW its contemporary leading example.

For all these differences, any one of the relatively lengthy in-game sequences in the comic books based on The Guild is a remarkably close parallel to an Elf episode. There's at least one such comic book, based on the Codex character, and more were promised when it came out. Perhaps the comic books will outlast the series. And perhaps Elf will transition to 4D someday.
Centcomm 8th Apr 2013, 10:43 PM edit delete reply
Its a excellent comic Snoggu thank you for making the refernces you do and thank you for bringing elf to us :D nuff said :D
Songgu Kwon 9th Apr 2013, 11:12 AM edit delete reply
Songgu Kwon
Thank you for your kind remarks and support! :)

Snoggu of the Enchanted Forest
Dean Clark 9th Apr 2013, 5:48 AM edit delete reply
Dean Clark
In addition to the David and Goliath syndrome, there is also what writers call the fallacy of the talkative villain. Some historical villains, like Jack the Ripper, have publicly boasted about their exploits, even when not on trail, but we expect it in fiction. As the eponymous ugly character says in The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly, if you're going to shoot, shoot, don't talk.

Just because Durgo survives this ordeal, doesn't mean he will prevail. A loss -- or even a win, depending on the enemies he made as a result -- could drive him to the outlaw status we see him playing later. In any event, in the panels where he's angry, he reminds me of Akira, who I always sympathized with.
Songgu Kwon 9th Apr 2013, 11:15 AM edit delete reply
Songgu Kwon
don't you mean... TETSUO!!!!!!!! (Why I no can make ah da font bigger?)
Dean Clark 10th Apr 2013, 1:38 AM edit delete reply
Dean Clark
Right you are. I meant the scrappy outsider in Akira. Durgo almost seems to be acting the part of Tetsuo. Tetsuo is normally considered the antagonist, but could as well be considered the catalyst for a popular uprising against a corrupt government. People are killed along the way, but that's revolution for you.

Even if Durgo won't be as central a character in Elf, perhaps he can still be rehabilitated, back in the real-time narrative. He is on Blackfeather's side still in the flashback. He, like her brother, is just frustrated with its leadership's perceived cowardice. But perhaps Wulfric's retreat was strategic, and he and Durgo can someday be reconciled. Stay tuned! Same Elf time! Same Elf channel!
MonkeyMuscle 11th Apr 2013, 12:58 PM edit delete reply
I think Nic the DM Guide lawyer needs to make an appearance.
Songgu Kwon 12th Apr 2013, 8:59 PM edit delete reply
Songgu Kwon
Ha ha! Perhaps.
warriorneedsfood 1st Jan 2014, 12:21 PM edit delete reply
I love that you are using proper HEMA sword fighting on this comic. For example, like how he is using First Ward with that buckler. Well done!
Songgu Kwon 2nd Jan 2014, 1:39 PM edit delete reply
Songgu Kwon
Thanks! Here's a link to a site with lots of images depicting some of the positions found in the Royal Armouries Ms. I.33, the oldest surviving medieval fight manual:

warriorneedsfood 2nd Jan 2014, 7:46 PM edit delete reply
I own a printed copy of I.33. Although I mostly study Italian Longsword (Fiore). I really appreciate you throwing a little bit of real sword work in here.